Episode 5
Michael Gietzen
CEO of Identity
ON THIS EPISODE OF ‘JUST ONE THING’:
Today, we have the privilege of talking to Michael Gietzen, the CEO of Identity, an independent global live events agency. He started his career as a chartered accountant and now heads up one of the fastest growing companies in Europe.
Michael leads a growing team delivering live events for global brands that include Google, Netflix and Apple and has worked on public contracts clients that include the Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office and the Ministry of Defence. Michael is currently leading the expansion of the business into the Middle East with the opening of offices in UAE.
His agency is renowned for their meticulous management of big-ticket, high stakes events, most recently they helped deliver the Coronation of King Charles III. With a global audience of 2.5 billion, events don’t get a lot more high-stakes than that!
Watch Michael on YouTube or listen to him on Spotify, Apple or Google podcasts
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Dear Michael of 2003,
Get ready, you’re about to lose your hair next year. Don’t worry, you accept it with good grace! (Oh, and it comes in handy a bit later in your life. Looking older than you actually are served you very well in your early career. I’ve so much advice to share with you, but knowing your propensity to race ahead, I’ll boil it down to just seven.
No.1. Make plans but write them in pencil. I know that you have recently stressed about your A-levels and with that behind you, you’re packing up for a gap year of travel before heading off to read Law. While it’s great that you have made plans for the coming four years, it’s best to just write them in pencil for the moment. Life is unpredictable and being able to pivot and change direction is a skill that you nurture early on to good effect. The law thing doesn’t happen and your career navigates a very different path than you ever intended. In the meantime, enjoy the next five years or so because the real hard work comes later.
No.2. Nothing lasts forever. Secondly, remember that nothing lasts forever. Take enjoyment from every day, even the tough ones. Not everything will go your way all the time. Focus on one of Kipling’s lines and meet with triumph and disaster, treating those two impostors just the same. You will experience some sad times over the next two decades as well as some amazing highs – roll with them all.
No.3. Keep at it. Your entrepreneurial spirit is still glowing since your primary school days. Keep at it. Continue to be intrigued by business; and the many facets of decision making that it takes to be successful in the work place. You don’t know it yet, but your car washing days and other pocket-money-earning ventures, as well as your efforts during secondary school to lead a multitude of groups, (from charities and sports to community initiatives), are developing a skills-set that you will draw on later in life. It’s all good stuff. Skills you’ll use for everything from pitching to board room discussions, and even negotiating with your headstrong sons!
No.4. Family Fourth bit of advice: I know it is always a real frustration to you to lose at sport against your two older brothers, but don’t worry about that. You are all ultimately on the same team; England will win the Rugby World Cup this year (yes, they will!); and your family will always be there to support you and celebrate your wins in life. Oh, and that fiercely competitive edge you have in spades does help in business.
Family is everything to you and this will continue to play a pivotal role in your life as you grow older, look after every one of them. You don’t know it yet, nor appreciate it, but you owe everything you have to the support, love and guidance provided by Mum and Dad.
You will be incredibly fortunate and win big in life - good health, a successful business, amazing family and a trusted friendship circle. This is what you will find the most rewarding, fulfilling and gratifying – cherish it.
No.5. People. Be picky. Find your tribe and build it. Like attracts like. Your energy will attract the same kind of energy. Remember if you are the smartest person in the room, you are definitely in the wrong room. At the same time, continue to be intrigued by people and feed your natural curiosity. Your ability to build relationships and engage with people, across all spectrums, is a core talent that you don’t even recognise in yourself at the moment.
You already know your own values of trust, loyalty and kindness. Stick with them and look for them in the people you chose to have around you. You will end up building a business where you surround yourself with people who share these values – this, in no short measure, adds immeasurably to your quality of life.
Oh and one last thing on people, you know Paul Fitzpatrick, the guy you met on the steps of your English classroom aged 13, hold onto that relationship – it serves you both very well over the years.
No. 6. Trust your instincts. It has worked for you so far in your 18 years of life. It has already removed you from some tricky situations, swerved potentially bad decisions and steers you on the right course. Above all – ‘if there is any doubt, there is no doubt’ – if you find yourself at times seriously questioning whether you should/shouldn’t do something, the answer is don’t do it.
Trust your instincts when it comes to taking advice too. There are some key people in your life that will influence and shape your course. Nik Askaroff who advises you to pursue a career in accountancy, that’s a good move, it will prove very valuable in your later life. It is also where you will meet your first ‘proper’ boss, Steve Moore, who will later become a great friend and lifelong confidant.
No. 7. Keep learning. Never give up on your insatiable appetite to consume information, data, and insights on business, people and high performance. Keep learning.
Without letting too much out of the bag, because it was the ‘not knowing’ that will get you to where you are today, grab those opportunities to speak as an industry leader, on something that will be called a podcast. You will love podcasts. You will also love your dog, Bertie, (Yep, you own a dog) that you walk everyday so that you can listen uninterrupted to various podcasts.
You are going to work exceptionally hard and will meet some amazing people, achieve more than you imagined, all the while doing something you absolutely love. Enjoy it all.
Finally, watch out for 2020. Refer back to my first bit of advice about making plans but writing them in pencil. You’ll need to navigate off-piste for a bit, which you will do rather successfully, and you’ll be back to on track before you know it!
Love,
Michael (2023)
P.S. Next year a business will be launched called Facebook. Buy some shares in it.
P.P.S Watch events, attend events, follow events – trust me it will come in handy later.
P.P.P.S. Yes, you will get the car you want!
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Mel Noakes: If I Could Tell You Just One Thing is a brand-new event industry podcast presented by me, Mel Noakes.
Max Fellows: And me, Max Fellows.
Mel: It's a podcast from Elevate where industry leaders write a letter to their younger selves.
Max: And they consider what wise words of advice they would give themselves now, if only they could.
Mel: Our discussion is based on this letter.
Max: Be prepared for refreshingly honest conversation and wise words of wisdom.
Mel: Today, we have the privilege of talking to Michael Gietzen, the CEO of Identity, an independent global live events agency. He started his career as a chartered accountant and now heads up one of the fastest-growing companies in Europe.
Max: Michael leads a growing team delivering live events for global brands that include Google, Netflix, and Apple and has worked on public contracts that include the Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office and the Ministry of Defence. Michael is currently leading the expansion of the business into the Middle East with the opening of offices in the UAE.
Mel: His agency is renowned for the meticulous management of big-ticket, high-stakes events. Most recently, they helped deliver the Coronation of King Charles III with a global audience of 2.5 billion and the UK events industry watching. It doesn't get more high-stakes than that.
Max: I mean it's an introduction. That's not bad, is it? Hey, it takes it straight in. But a big thank you for joining us and coming and sitting on our hot seat and sharing all of that as well. We are very privileged and grateful to have you here.Michael Gietzen: Thank you very much for having me. I do enjoy listening to this by now. He's a proud moment when you stand back and reflect. You don't often get to do that.
Mel: So for those that don't know, you Michael, please introduce yourself to us a little bit about what you do at Identity.
Michael: As you kindly said I am Michael Gietzen. I am now the CEO of Identity, indeed, Europe's fastest-growing events agency, probably globally now, one of the fastest-growing events agencies. I guess we are, maybe, if I start from current days and go back a little bit, I guess, now, we're synonymous with delivering some of the globe's highest profile events and is a field that we've got ourselves into where we specialize in sort of mass participation complex events. But I guess we are a traditional events agency and so full service from design, creativity, strategy, all the way through to delivery and now, obviously more so than ever, a digital layer in every event that we do.
Max: And with the letter writing, as with all guests, we've asked you to write a letter to your younger self of 20 or so years before, how do you find that process?
Michael: Cathartic. I thought it's such a great exercise and I've actually shared it with friends and family, making them do the same thing, what would you say to your younger self? And I've really enjoyed the process. There's a lot I wouldn't change. I've had a fantastic career so far and it wasn't one that I ever anticipated getting into, but it's been a great journey, and I think more just trying to tell myself to strap in and enjoy the ride really.
Max: Recognised some of those key moments because it's going at such a pace, right? One thing I want to mention or talk about just before we get stuck into it then and it is a very well-formatted and exceptional letter in itself with a piece of work of brilliance. The opening comments you mentioned was about this premise around acting older or kind of this persona of being older and obviously kind of had a nod to the hair type thing which we had a giggle at and it resonated because I've always tried to operate five to seven years older and especially not first 10-15 year of career to earn a seat at the table or because you feel you need to, in order to get in the room. How did you find it? Why did you kind of feel that just because I could relate to it so much?
Michael: Yeah, I think it's the industry that we're in, but I guess you could generalise it throughout the business, is that relationship sell. So, I think there is a trust and an expectancy that if I'm going to do business with this person, they've been doing it long enough that they know what they're talking about and I relied heavily on them in my early days in events where we were probably punching way above our weight. Actually, when I was 23, people probably thought I was more like 33, so I could not say but they could believe there was a decade's worth of experience behind me, but my education helped me massively. Eastbourne College that I attended, I think, really helped. We were interacting with adults and older people at college all the time. That was a real stepping stone into business which I then later really appreciated. But I do remember some of the early deals of being in a boardroom or pitch with people much older than myself, thinking, have I got away with this?
I know exactly what it is and then learned to behold someone comes knocking in its 30, under 30, or 40, under 40 or something, and they're kind of know. But actually had to approach my passport for one of those ones, just to do it and then suddenly everyone realises and there's a point where the balancing act, kind of changes, and then you grow into that age and then you're like, oh no, I'm younger, I'm younger!
Michael: I was doing a pitch for a global brand, and we won the pitch. But afterwards, I was out having a cigarette with him and he said what are you up to this evening? I said, oh, I'm off to my friend's 23rd birthday, and he thought that's a bit weird. And I went, well, I'm actually 22. So, he said I probably would not have given you the deal if I'd have known that.
Mel: Wow!
Max: Yeah. I bet. Then, jumping into the letter and you mention and talked about family and the education side of things, so going back to the early years, tell us a bit about what that looks like for you and that kind of experience in the family side of things as well.
Michael: As I already told in the letter, family for the Gietzens and for me are absolutely everything. I've got a lot to thank my parents for the support and guidance, particularly as we probably find out a bit later. My dad was in the events industry and so three decades in that and little did I know that every Sunday lunch and every summer holiday and every weekend or jobbing for him, that I was crafting a skill set and knowledge of the events industry that later in my life I'm going to use and apply but have got two young kids, married and I think what's been brilliant in particularly with Gen Z coming through, is this work-life balance in this phrase that we're coining so much, I think is essential now to good business.
I think the flexibility of working, making sure that, it's not all about the grind and earning the money that if you can't enjoy it with family and friends and what's the point of doing it all, but I think that growing any business is incredibly alone when you get at the top. If it's not for the support of the family around you, I think it's almost impossible. My wife has been incredibly supportive of me over the last decade and I think she's practically been in the boardroom for the first couple of years. She's grateful now that as the business has expanded.
Max: She's got out.
Michael: Yeah, she's retired from that role. I mean that it is essentially what's really important and again, I think that because I'm the youngest of three boys that competitive edge that has been almost beaten into me by my two older brothers who are also in business, I think, is incredibly important being competitive.
Mel: You talked about this entrepreneurial spirit, it's another thing that comes through in the letter and you know those early days of doing all sorts of things at school and selling things and whatnot and you talk about odd jobbing for your dad, how much is that played a role in the journey that you've been on?
Michael: Yeah, I can only talk personally, but I guess most entrepreneurs have a similar backstory where they've been ducking and diving and sort of wheeling and dealing and trying to make the most out of every opportunity. It's just so bizarre and I said, this is such a cathartic process, writing a letter to your younger self because it's a moment of reflection. On that moment of reflection, you can understand the small building blocks that happened in those early years and almost the butterfly effect that happens 10-15 years later down the line. You're finally, you are just refining and honing that skill set that you're later going to use in the boardroom.
Mel: Yeah. The journey from a chartered accountant to an event manager has not necessarily been the obvious career path that one takes. So, tell us a little bit about that and I guess where it started and some of those careers I guess course corrections might be that bought you here?
Michael: Going right back from here, actually wanted to be a barrister and that was always my dream was to get into commercial law. I enjoy acting when I was at school, and they say that most barristers are kind of failed actors. But I'm actually dyslexic, and so I studied history and English at A-level and had a place to go and study the law or history at Nottingham University.
In my gap year, I absolutely realised that I don't enjoy it. I would really struggle reading books for a further four years and having to remember everything and all the order and all the case law. I've had to start searching what it is that I wanted to do. And I was kindly advised by a guy called Nick Ascroft and I wanted to go into the City and he said that the best thing is to go and get qualified, get a really good qualification behind you and the world's your oyster after that. But if anyone knows that they're dyslexic working with numbers, it's also a challenge.
But I got qualified and I did pass qualification in accountancy and that put me in good stead. The fascinating thing, and I have mentioned this many times, when you're an accountant and you do audits, you get to spend time with the entrepreneurs that own the businesses, and you have to interview them and ask them what's going on, what's their strategic report, and what's happening in the business? And of the tens, maybe hundreds of business owners I've met in that time, you could see the really good ones, the average ones and the bad ones. Also, you would have about 30 minutes with them. I could be sitting with them for 2-3 hours, just fascinated. I had this ability for them to want to open up more and tell me more. And I remember coming home to my mom and dad saying that's what I want to do. I want to sit that side of the table, not this side of the table and that's where the journey really, really began and now, I don't like accountancy and so, I'm glad to be out, but I'll tell you, I use a lot more accountancy now.
Max: Fellow dyslexic is a fearful and kind of big monster of a qualification. Even going to University in qualifications in itself is quite a challenge per se, as you develop your interpersonal skills more so as a route rather than the academic side.
You mentioned the acting element of and actually from some of the entrepreneurs, we've spoken to acting is something that feeds through as well and then the ability to play to strength and things like that. Were you an academic in your secondary schools and things or did you lean into the acting side a bit more as well? What was the kind of that before the university days?
Michael: In a sporting term, if you could sum me up, I'm an all-rounder. I'm a straight B's type of guy, and some of the subjects I really, really enjoyed. I might bump up to an A but at the same time, I played averagely across all the sports team. I just enjoyed everything and I had a lot of great time in school. I really benefited from that system and so on but it's an equal balance for me.
I just found exams incredibly stressful and it's something I don't miss and I reflect it now as a grown adult. How insignificant they really are in life and I think, anyone that was listening we are just trying to rationalise that process is relaxed and just get through it because I think experience more than ever now means so much.
Max: Yeah. If you were to reset the bar then and with your little ones growing up, when they hit 11 pluses or GCSEs, how would you assess their capabilities if you were to do away with GCSEs?
Michael: Good questions. Happiness, I think, more than anything. Definitely. I've got two very different boys, but my eldest I judge if you're happy and you're enjoying it, you'll do well at it and find your groove and find what you like. And I think we're in a privileged position where we have a good life. So, actually, I want them to make sure that they're enjoying what there is but also I know that there is a plethora of opportunity out there.
I think what's brilliant over the last few years is that you really can’t do anything now and also, I am putting the millennial last of the generation really of where you were pigeonholing what you had to do at such a young age. No, you don't have to do it.
Max: I just find it interesting as a dyslexic, superpower or a slight challenge setback.
Michael: Interesting question. I don't know whether I hide behind it sometimes and so you have an ability, tough thing to say, oh, I'm dyslexic, and I need it done like this, but Richard Branson, massive amount to thank for dyslexic people. It's not till you're older and successful that you're able to control a room or control a scenario with more confidence.
So, I can turn around to people and say, actually, I don't like that information given to me in that format. I need you to put this into some pictures and I need into a deck and I need you to explain it. I need you to bring it to life, very nervous doing that in my early career. Now, most of our meetings are shaped in that pattern. I've got a very different management team and everyone wants things done in a different way. But we're very acceptant of that diversity within the workplace. But the creativity that you supposedly get from being dyslexic is an absolute superpower in the events industry, definitely. And I think in the boardroom.
Max: Seeing things in a certain way, yes.
Michael: With any strength, you must know your weakness. I have to be very careful about it. I can proofread a document accurately and even when I think I have, I studied English, so I think you just got to know your weaknesses to balance them out.
Mel: You talked in your letter a little bit about this idea of nothing lasts forever and making the highs and lows with equal grace, which I think is a really lovely approach to things. How has that been for you through your career so far and life so far?
Michael: I’m a great believer. As you said it won't last forever, so I think enjoying every moment and being very respectful and mindful of an upwards journey because you might have to go back down afterwards.
Also to that point is, I'm a huge believer in Karma as well, is that, whatever happens will happen for a reason and I think that has put me in really good stead and I think live the moment, don't hold onto it for very long. We have an expression now and I am sure it is in a film, but be a goldfish, in Ted Lasso, right? So he's like, be a goldfish, forget about it afterwards, move on. Life's too short and I really, really believe that.
In business and particularly the agency world, where it is a people-led profession, if you hold grudges or resentment, it is terrible and so I just move on, get on with it. We lose pitches all the time, you have to rebuild and re-gather so yes, it's a good trait to have.
Max: How did you, from the accounting side, find yourself, as you said, you wanted to be that side of the desk or that interview and the questioning to that entrepreneur and things? How did you make that leap? And what was the sparkle thing that went right? Okay! This is it! and it's called Identity of your hop?
Michael: Always the stars were kind of aligning. So, I joined Identity in 2009.
Max: So, existed beforehand?
Michael: Yep, and it was just after the financial crash. So, my dad had been in the events industry under a different name, really. But it was what we would deem now as a kind of project manager within the exhibition and conference space. A couple of guys work there, so small local businesses in the town where I lived.
I remember saying to my parents, “I really want to start up my own business but why don't I come and join you, dad?” And my mom said absolutely, no, why do I through away a fantastic qualification like accountancy and get into the events industry. After a bit of badgering, I joined the business. My brother was there as well at the time. So, a real family business and going through very difficult times. So, the exhibition industry is absolutely a barometer of the economic climate. If the economy is struggling, then people cut on their exhibitions and so we had to look to diversify and that was where my cut and thrust really came in.
I started thinking about what we could do and so we diversified and went into Graphics and Signage where our offices were right by a commercial vehicle’s company and so we would meet all the people coming in buying the new vans and we would do graphics for them.
But because we were used to doing some project management, we immediately aimed high, and we picked up some national contracts. We were, within two years, the largest Graphics Company within Sussex. At this time, Facebook and social media marketing was coming in. So, we set up a little digital side and then, we got into promotional products and these are all around an event ecosystem, that you had an exhibition. We could do all the graphics. We could design it for you. We could do your digital marketing content for pre, during, and post show activations, and then we could do your pens and pencils on the side.
In sort of a couple of years in now at Identity, my dad retires, and the team is growing. He hands over the reins, now managing director of Identity, and we're doing all right. We're probably up to three million pounds turnover, living the dream, exceeding expectations probably got 25 staff at this stage.
Max: Can I jump in? What age were you when you became an MD of a 3 plus million-pound business with 25 odd staff?
Michael: We maybe do the maths now. But let's say about 25. I read a book called “The one thing” and I often get quoted talking about this as well. But it changed my life and it said about doing one thing and doing one thing really well and also about having a big hairy audacious goal that you aim for and we made touch on personal ones, but at my stage, then I stinking, do you know what? I would love a 5 million pound business. I remember it was a 100% growth, in revenue. Yes, we want to be profitable, but that was my big hairy goal, 5 million. We set out on a 5-year journey to do that. I remember standing up in front of the team, and I may be touching on this later, but staff conference is everything to me. Even when we were 20, the staff, we went and had a staff conference. We dedicated all day and we try to better ourselves and look at the goals and look at the strategy that we were going to do to get there.
Well, we did that in the first 2 years of our 5-year goal and so we got to that stage and then I said right, we've got to rethink this. We've got to go bigger and so we said we're going to do 15 million in the next 5 years. That is where we're going to get to as a business and we laughed, and people laughed at me then as well as and I said that can't be done.
If you know the events industry, 5 million is a solid events business. That probably is 80% of the market in that Boutique agency sphere of 30 people or so. When you punch above that into double digits, you are very much in the Premier League. You are may be one of 100 or 200 and then when you get even above that, you could count on one hand. That was the aim I wanted. C&IT top 50 list. I think capped off at like 15 million or something. That's awesome. I want to be on that list.
So, we set the 5-year goal. Within 18 months, we would reach that 5-year goal which was hugely exciting. And this is now where Identity is really starting to build momentum. How did we do that at that stage was, like I said, the one thing that was hugely influential, and it was because we focused on one thing and doing one thing really, really well. And so we actually stopped all of the diverse activities that we had. We had to pick the one that we wanted to focus on and we focused on events and that's why no one really heard of Identity until 2018, when we said, we're just going to do events from now on and that's it.
Mel: You talked about reaching those goals and the one thing being but there's so much that goes into, how do you get a business in a culture behind a goal like that, to achieve it in such a quick time because it's not just the focus, it is how do you get the people behind you believing in that vision because that must have been a lot of fun, but a real shift as well.
Michael: Yeah, definitely. I mean we were burning out at that time and that was one of the catalysts of wanting to focus to make a million-pound selling Graphics. It's an awful lot of Graphics you've got to sell. Awful lot of roller Banners at 99 pounds.
I was working with my business partner, Paul Fitzpatrick, at this stage and I remember very much most of our business planning was done in a pub in Eastbourne called Bibendum. And, I was saying, if no one was to come over the top with us and they're not the right people in this business, they've got to believe in what it is that we're doing. Interestingly, we reflect now because we are in a very different business, with over 200 staff, probably need 350 staff internationally this year. And you have got to want to be ambitious and you've got to want to jump on the roller coaster and you've got to thrive in this environment. Otherwise, it's not suited for you. You will bat against the business all the way. So that is really, really important.
I think I mentioned in my speech, make sure you've got people that are like-minded and want to come with you on the journey. Otherwise, they're just going to be expressions like mood Hoover's, time vampires, and what we called is like a terrorist with the business that is holding you back.
For me, it's very much about building that relationship connection. How do you do it, is things like the staff conference, is taking the time to explain to them the journey and again without being cliched but the Kennedy, when he talks to the cleaner and says, you're working at this, we want to put the first rocket on the moon and what's your role and I'm not the cleaner, I'm helping put that, and I think that's what we did with the team was, they really understood their part in finance, the importance of raising the POS correctly. So, the team is all paid for and they're not getting to the site and they are not being ready how you want it. So, that was really cascading the strategy and evidencing.
I think fact-checking improving as well was really important. I had the belief of the team behind me that we'd already done it once, we've done it again. Let's go and do a third time for the strategy, but I think taking the time out to explain what it is you want to do is essential in any business.
Mel: You talk a little bit about it in your letter about some of the people in your life and you've mentioned a couple of them there it was Nick and Steve and Paul and others, who were the people around you at that time because you talk about being lonely at the top? Well, at 25 years old at the top of a company growing at that rate, you must have needed some people for yourself to help guide that process through, who were they and what did they help you with?
Michael: Regret, now, but appreciate my dad on there. So, my dad was so different and we have achieved very different things in our careers within the event space. But a person that's been in that space for 30 years or so was a great counsel when thinking about project delivery, and actually, that is the hardest part of an agency.
You're only as good as the last job that you deliver and so for the team, that is fundamental to the delivery of all major events, now are essential, but great comfort in that area. Steve Moore, that I mentioned, who was my old boss, still here. I've been on the phone with him yesterday, chatting to him about things, and very much providing the financial blanket and security that I needed, as we were growing. We're lucky that agency and events world is typically cash deposits. When you work on a projects, you don't have so much of that cash burn that you would get in another fast-growing business that you're working on. But also just, I have a vicious appetite for podcasts. I mean, they'll probably be audiobooks in those days, not podcasts, but anything like that around the business.
I would constantly be annoying Paul and the other management team around. Oh, I was reading this thing the other day and they said about doing this and the one thing that I mean, I read so many business books and actually, probably to the annoyance of many people. And I guess, if I was reflecting, was do one thing Michael and one of them and stick with them but we did, I think really over for the last six years, we've been very focused on the way that we do things but I would say it was just more research which goes back to what my likes, being a barrister, want to be a barrister, wants to go through that and I enjoy research, just not that good at it.
Max: With those questions, those key people that helped to expose on the way, equally on the way, growing at such a rate like any successful business or stock almost, there has to be a plateau of sorts or a catch your breath moment of five, eight, nine years of treble digit growth and some is almost kind of impossible to maintain. I was going to say? Well, yeah, what kind of sacrifices you've had to make to keep that momentum going and what's it been for you in terms of those kinds of highs and lows equally on the roots, it's not all glamorous, right? You know, really isn't?
Michael: Financial and then, home life, definitely. So, in the early years I was probably paid one of the least in the business, took a long time for that to balance out, because we were reinvesting, literally everything we had back into the business at that stage and it was constantly growing. The way that we grew the business was attracting, one, and then, two, being able to afford it, was paying for the best industry talent. I strongly feel now that Identity probably has the greatest arsenal of web professionals in the world working under one roof, and we are a very attractive proposition for those but it's because we're still going on a journey. But, yes, having those amazing people around you and retaining them is absolutely essential.
That aside, home life, writing tenders all the way through my early years with Paul as well. We would be on holiday at Euro camp in France, and we are partners, would go to bed, and we'll go right laptops open at about half past 10, 11, a bottle of red wine, and we'd smash it from 10 till 4:00 in the morning or something. Because you don't know when those opportunities are going to land, and we'd put the holiday before we were going and exactly the same. When we talk about home working now in the pandemic, home working was just a way of life for me, always had a desk at home and always we’ve been burning the midnight oil. There's an expression in those early years as any entrepreneur would say, I got my day job in the day and then, I'll go home and do the business stuff and particularly then because I was also the sort of the accountant in the business as well. I mean, I drop that quite early on in the years, but I go back to be Antonia, my wife, very supportive and now, I'm in a privileged position where I can have that better balance in what I'm doing but certainly, the early years were graft.
Mel: And I think lots of entrepreneurs, don't talk about that. I know certainly there was this, boom, maybe five-six years ago where everyone wanted to be an entrepreneur and that I realise, you've got to be the T, the printer, the IT, the accountant and it sounds like you've had.
Michael: You never switch off now.
Max: It is the relevance against his work life and the reality is keen to hear your thoughts is, is that still doable, was trying to grow a business, is the core founder or that kind of key kind of original team?
Michael: There is no differentiation between work and life. It's an ecosystem and you either love it or you hate it and I love it. And I will never retire. It keeps me sharp, keeps sustain, and there's so much more I want to do, but it does mean you carry that heavy lies the head that wears the crown. You always carry that pressure with you and particularly on holidays. I've got very good now.
This is my advice to any business owner is, leave your phone at home. If you want to go and do something on holiday for a bit and you know you got to check in, you know you're going to do it. But the worst thing is reading your phone and getting a terrible email just before you're about to go to the aquarium with the kids or something because you're an absolute ass for two hours because all you want to do is and it can wait. But you're always thinking about it. By always, I mean, mobile phones are just amazing now because you just write a note down when something comes along and I still have a notepad by the side of my bed and like there's some of the greatest things I've done in the business and change things around as a result of that. So you never switch off, but it's a choice. If you want a 9 to 5 job, there are plenty of opportunities out there, if you want a 9 to 5 job, but when you want to run your own business and it's 24/7.
Mel: We talked a little bit about heavy that wears the crown and it would be remiss of us not to talk about one of the biggest events we've witnessed in our lifetime.
Michael: You're welcome.
Mel: Obviously, for us event professionals watching an event like that hugely bring so much pride to us because it really is the best of our industry, the best of our country on display, but obviously running an event like that, we all know the pressure of a normal corporate event, running an event, like that is a different level, tell us a little bit about how you got into Royal events. And I guess some of the things that went on in the background that you can share to run something as big as the coronation.
Michael: We've earned our stripes to get to where we are today. And I mentioned earlier that, we are synonymous with probably some of the most major international events in the world. It goes back to surrounding yourself with great people, and I've done exactly that. So, in my team, Janet Dodd, who's one of my business partners, I've got a fourth business partner called Simon Dunnell, and with the four of us, we've set out on this journey to go into this element of the market. And so without them, none of it would be possible. But told about how you win these? Well, the technical side of it is we have to tender like any other job, and you have to submit your pitch and we have the experience required to do this job. The uniqueness of it is it hasn't happened for 70 years. And so, it's the first in a generation of doing an event of this scale. And, so we put our best foot forward and do the things that we normally do in evidence of our experience and our Identity as a kind of low-risk option when delivering these projects. But they are hugely complex, and it is not down to any one person. It is a huge team effort at Identity and across all of the stakeholders involved in a project like this. There's probably the best part of 12-15 major stakeholders, Royal households to the Ministry of Defence, the Royal Parks, London Borough, GLA, DCMS, BBC, the list could go on and Identity is the glue that holds all of that together and I hope His Highness is very pleased with the delivery of the project. I thought it went well. For us, it was an amazing, amazing event for Identity and we're incredibly proud.
Max: There's any gossip behind the scenes or anything like that, that you can share of what went on?
Michael: Nothing that the Daily Mail or something wouldn't tell you. I think it's more just that we're all human at the end of the day and it's just a pinch yourself the moment that when we reflect that two and a half billion people watched the events that we delivered is just an incredible feeling now. And I think one of the things that we've managed to create at Identity is what we call this stand back moment where what we have achieved is really, really incredible and I'm incredibly proud of the agency now, and actually the Coronation, excused upon, is the absolute jewel in the crown for us because New Year's Eve fireworks display with love from London was just a most epic project for Identity and you know, doing our first ever New Year’s Eve fireworks play last year, it bought tear to my eye, just incredible. And even now, and it's that to my friends and all our peers in the industry to pull off something, that was quite incredible and really, we topped it. We did the Coronation and it's just amazing!
Max: Yeah. You mentioned in your letter and I wanted to ask how relevant it still is, is about making plans and your big ugly grizzly kind of goals and things but equally you mention writing it in pencil and so just reflecting on that note to yourself in the letter. I wonder what kind of big ugly goal is now and equally what elements are in pencil or that represented the kind of pencil point?
Michael: So really, really important; agility, flexibility, being able to duck dive as I mentioned and just grasp every opportunity that presents itself is essential to business. And without quoting him too much again, you look at the Richard Branson or something that, he really fell into the opportunities that were there, navigate his way and I truly believe that's what we've done at Identity as well.
Now, interestingly, I believe we have created a platform at Identity. We have done something that is once in probably 100 years that has happened to our industry and we have disrupted the major agency space. If you look at our competitors, they have been around for 75 years, 100 years plus. In the grand scheme of things, we've been around for about 6 years doing what we do. Now, we've got a couple of hundred million pound revenue, sitting across the business, with offices internationally. We've created a platform where we can now choose our next steps of what we want to do and how we want to do it.
And so when you asked about what my future goals are now, it's we're really searching about what is the purpose of what we're doing and we've been nearly there. I believe we are the most sustainable events agency on the planet. And I think what sustainability means to us is also what we do from a social value perspective. We are working with clients and changing the way that the events industry operates and I'll give you a couple of examples. So, we no longer use colourful carpets in our projects. We use muted colours, and we put more expensive carpets in but we have them washed and cleaned and then we put them into social housing after all events that we do. We look at purchasing furniture rather than hiring furniture, now work with the client and then we find different charities around the projects, and we place them into social housing projects. We do IT set up, IT rooms at projects and we take the unemployed or homeless and we give them paid work experience on projects. We also support them with CV writing and we can get them back onto the ladder and into what is a great industry and the list could go on of the support that we can drive a force for good on what was a notoriously, very wasteful industry and challenging clients. So, this is such an exciting chapter now for me, and that's where I see the next 5-10 years for me going.
Mel: It's interesting because you talked a lot about Identity there, but I'm curious as to you, Michael, in all of that because you're at a really exciting point in your career but you 20 years ago, probably had no idea this was coming. So, in the midst of all of this having just on the Coronation, these kinds of goals being able to do the kind of things you're doing in your agency, what does that mean to you as an individual?
Michael: It's a great feeling now and very rewarding. I've always been a caring person and I'd like to think if you spoke to someone else it was with me growing up, I've always had a compassionate side and always want to. If someone was struggling, I would go and talk to someone on their own in a room. I'd go and sit with them. I've always had that nature in me and so growing a business, running a business is ruthless, isn't the right word, but it's an aggressive environment. It's a dog-eat-dog world. You have to be really strong in the way you operate.
However, you can choose how you do that and so I do have those characteristics. I do have that skill set and I will be as strong and as rigid as the best of the people, but at the same time, I'll be very compassionate and have tons of empathy in it. And I think we grew the business like that. And I would constantly say to the management team, you've got to respect every one of what they're doing. Little regard was taken for the people that are on site as opposed to the people in the office and we bridge that gap brilliantly in the business.
But, now, I get to do nearly everything I enjoy and love. And so for me, it's just an amazing experience to think about what we can do for the business to better the planet and better the industry is very, very rewarding. Also, I get to play with big numbers and think about mergers, acquisitions, and future growth and working with my different managing directors I have in the businesses. It's very rewarding, and I am genuinely really excited to see what 10 years on gives me because if it's half as good as where I am now, I'm really, really excited about the next step.
Max: With that, then it just seems crazy, doesn't it? You keep that growth going, then just take over the world, why not? But with that and honestly, I suppose, in the last 10, 15, 20 years, or so, what's been the most influential key moment and on the opposite of that, what's been the biggest, not mistake because we learn from them things, but what's the two kinds of polarising moments there, on the positives and the negatives that have shaped the way all the things that you've now done in the success you've achieved?
Michael: Just when you're just touching a point there as well, I think there's so much risk involved and any is great, celebrating a successful businessperson a successful business career, and all things are going in there. But you have to be so mindful of the other side. Constantly, one eye all the time on cash flow, finance, making the rock is very scary or is very lonely those early years, at least, I can share it now with a management team about making the right decisions, which is important. And I think, like I said, it's like gambling, when the fun stops you should stop. But I'll always hold that in my head but 2 of the polarizer point. I mean I'd a supplier that went bust in my early years that nearly crippled us and we didn't do our due diligence. We smell a little bit of a rat and I think naivety stepped in and that humbled us big time and I'm so glad I did that early on in my career because procurement is such a big part of what we do now but was born out of that. But it nearly could have all been over. I think it was about 2014, and we would have gone bust and I wouldn't have got done what I did.
Then, the polar opposite that is people. I have recruited some amazing people that are now business partners of mine. I head hunted them and I did it myself and I knew what I wanted and I went and got the ones that wanted to come and join it. I think it is a very proud moment because we sold them the dream. I told them what we're going to do. We believe we have exceeded it now, and so, I'm very proud of that.
Max: Before we get to the big meaty one, Michael of 2003, what would he think and say to the Michael of now sitting on the couch? What kind of the conversation sound like?
Michael: You did touch me beforehand. But I say “God , you've had a heavy paper round”. As you might see guys, if you're going to look at the website and the photo of me when I was younger, just don't be a dick would be the one, just keep on doing it. Keep your feet grounded. And I said, my parents are fantastic for that trying to keep me grounded while I have an incredibly successful business and we really just only begun and so just stay grounded and look after everyone, look after the team, nurture them, grow them, just keep going.
Max: Do you think that earlier, you always saw that there were big things coming and you believe that was happening since actually wouldn't be a big surprise or that you've surpassed yourself in?
Michael: I've definitely surpassed myself. Absolutely, did I believe in myself? Absolutely, I think I can't remember. But even I look back at my year school book, and the first person to make a million pounds, and my name is on there. And so, I think there was always spark and I certainly had that belief and I come from a very humble background and so I've definitely changed that now, but I wanted that. I always wanted that and I have a terrible passion for cars and so you go earn your money to get into.
Mel: I was going to ask what the car was.
Michael: Well...
Mel: Maybe that's offline then.
Max: Before you ask the last question. I've got two brothers. What are they doing? And what's that relationship now like, is the banter, or you're getting the drinks every time you meet.
Michael: Just because you all have totally got this. My brother was taking the mick out of me. Literally, they are in my kitchen about my sporting prowess and my son or lack thereof and I said to my son, rather very quietly, I said who's winning at life now? But I'm going on holiday with my brother on Sunday. I've a fantastic relationship with both of them. We're all big Brighton fans and we're delighted to see that Brighton are going to Europe to play football. And so we spend an awful lot of time. We are incredibly tight family. My little brother owns a property business and my eldest brother is a vice principal at school.
Mel: Wow, so you talked earlier about a book that inspired you which is called “The One Thing" and the podcast is obviously named the One Thing 2 which is a nice segue into our last question. Which is if there was that one piece of advice you can pass on that was either so good or so bad you had to share it, what would it be?
Michael: If it's for other entrepreneurs, it would very much be about, aim for the stars because the moon isn't bad. We've always believed in that. I think, if you set the bar too low, you're not likely to hit it always and so you really setting the stool quite low. So, just aim for the stars because the moon isn't bad.
Max: You were going to say something else, what was that if it wasn't to entrepreneur?
Michael: To an entrepreneur, I think more just to my kind of younger selves or to peers that are around them and particularly with Gen Z and I don't want to alienate anyone but hard graft is absolutely everything and you won't get anything without putting in. And so no one's going to do it for you. You've got to do it yourself and you got a roll up your sleeves and that is a trait and something I try and breed with everyone, it is just “no one's going to do it for you, so work hard.”
Max: Yeah, brilliant. Mike thanks so much for joining us on the couch and appreciate it. It's been brilliant.
Michael: Yeah, thank you very much.
Max: I really enjoyed that conversation. I didn't have any sort of preconceived ideas of what it would be like. But it was one of those really filling, really enjoyable conversations that could have just gone on for hours and hours, right?
Mel: Absolutely. And I think, what's really, lovely about Michael's letter is also, he broke it down for those that haven't looked at it on the website, I really encourage you to because he actually breaks it down into seven really lovely parts. I think all of those constitute such great advice and you can see how those things have played and helped shape his journey and hit the stage of life that he's in. That's not giveaways age. But he's still got so much more to come, but some of those foundations you can really see play out and things that he keeps going back to and there's some just so much richness in that.
Max: I think what's refreshing is that there isn't another kind of excuse for other than hard work, you've got to have goals. These aspirations is big hairy monsters that he was referring to and the ability to be agile and write goals in pencil and I love that kind of reference in his notes as well. But it's that drive and that hard work that will get you there. And there's no kind of second-guessing, it's what makes it happen.
Mel: I think that's so important for people that are listening this to understand and those people that may be further along in their career will really resonate with that and not the head because there is something in the events industry but I think there are different ways of earning them. But you have to earn your stripes, you have to do those hard yard. You have to understand your craft and I think so many people try to rush through those early years now looking at but I want to be the next CEO, I want to be this, and that ambition is great. I think people forget how much work is involved in this industry but also how much you're going to go back to those early years and rely on those early years in those foundations like Michael talks about in his sort of accountancy journey and whilst it wasn't a thing he ended up doing that training and that experience has led him to where he is today and I just don't think you can replicate that. So, I really like his hard work.
Max: Yeah. And remain a really good guy throughout the entirety and as he said himself, it's that don't be a dick mentality. But that's enabled him to bring on board some of the better talents that's then you know elevated him or enabled him to do the different things of growth and business growth, but they then ran the business to an extent and that's not an easy thing to do. But to see from other entrepreneurs or agency owners or individuals, what can be achieved in the space of little more than probably 10 years or so is extraordinary. And so for any of those that are about to check this podcast is one of those that you listened to anything you've caught, there's a real takeaway there, it's really inspiring.
Mel: I think also the kind of events that he's doing and his agency has achieved and representing our industry at the very highest stakes, you know, being able to hear a little bit behind the scenes and how that's come about and also the prides, individually and professionally, of those moments is actually really humbling because I think we take for granted the kind of events that we do and the kind of industry that we work in and to see somebody at the top of their game, still loving it, still appreciating it but also the humbleness to sort of take a step back and enjoy it. And I love that he does that with his agency because God knows the events industry is always on. So taking that moment to really enjoy your success as well, is something that really came through for me.
Max: Definitely and more so definitely as you get to those kinds of key milestones of moments. And that letter writing exercises he found, really refreshing.
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